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On Australian Voice

  • Mar. 12th, 2008 at 11:19 AM
Willow
I was just slushing something for Shiny and one of the comments that came up is that it might be "too Australian for overseas audiences". It's an interesting comment and I thought I might hash out my thoughts here.

I read a lot of Australian specfic, as you may know. And I think the one thing the majority of it lacks *is* Australian voice. Or even some kind of voice at all to distinguish it from the thousands of other pieces written in a year. I guess that's a funny thing to say in some ways. The majority of SF, at least, has a very American voice about it - well, it would, more Americans than anyone else get published. The nature of it is that more Americans publish thus there are more Americans who get published. I spose too, more Americans write than anyone else. But the downside of that is this very homogenous output. And I think in some ways, that gives non-American writers an advantage when they submit to American outlets (providing the quality is up to scratch).

There's been lots of discussion since I've been around about Australian voice in science fiction and in horror - do we have one and if we do, what is it? I think that's why I was so excited when Sue Isle submitted "The Sun People" to Shiny - it's set in my own city, Perth. She writes of places in the CBD that I know so well I can wander around with my eyes shut. Sooooo often I read other writers' work set in their own cities. And you know, that works too - I have a love and familiarity with New York and Paris that I may otherwise not have done. And that's the cool thing about reading - travelling overseas and seeing new places for the price of the book and not the airfare. And so with "The Sun People", we bring y'all out there to our little city. Kind of. Cause of course she's set it post-apocalypse but whatever. I wonder though if that's how other people read that story - can they relate to something that is very Australian, very Western Australian? Do they just read it as a random unfamiliar city - and not that there is anything wrong with that, if they do?

Should Australian publishers be looking to create a strong Australian voice, stories set in our cities, using our jargon and idioms and dealing with our own problems? Or should we be trying to appeal to a more mainstream sf readership (is there such a thing) and homogenising our works so that they fit in with the crowd and get swept along in the wake?

I know which I'd rather read. What about you?

Comments

[info]angriest wrote:
Mar. 12th, 2008 02:32 am (UTC)
I think Australian writers should just write, and allow the" "Australian-ness" to come out by itself. Actively seeking a sense of Australian identity is what's crippled the AUstralian film industry for the past ten year.
[info]girliejones wrote:
Mar. 12th, 2008 02:37 am (UTC)
I guess though the converse to that, for me, is that a lot of writers tend to try and force an unAustralianness. Or by trying to fit in with the majority, they don't create anything *new* or look at things from different perspectives.
[info]angriest wrote:
Mar. 12th, 2008 02:39 am (UTC)
Hence my suggestion they just write what comes naturally. Don't force it either way.
[info]girliejones wrote:
Mar. 12th, 2008 02:45 am (UTC)
Not force but I wonder if its disencouraged.

I'm also wondering about your comment on the film industry. Are you saying that trying to make "australian" films has stifled things? In what ways would you say? Should we also be making generic movies that appear to be set in LA or NY? Or nowhere? I'm trying to think about movies and stories that we would write that would not be obviously set in Australia.
[info]angriest wrote:
Mar. 12th, 2008 02:50 am (UTC)
Because our film agencies in general will only fund projects with a strong sense of "Australianness", or ones that will investigate "the Australian condition", projects that do not fit into that narrow band get locked out and either never get made or move offshore.

Saw is a classic example, where every Australian film agency it was submitted to rejected it outright, and it subsequently went on to make half a billion dollars for American film companies and distributors instead.

Genre film gets screwed, is what I suppose I'm saying. No action, horror, sci-fi, fantasy, etc. Just quirky comedies and suburban dramas.
[info]girliejones wrote:
Mar. 12th, 2008 02:55 am (UTC)
Which is ironic I spose since a lot of the genre films made by Hollywood are made here.
[info]battblush wrote:
Mar. 12th, 2008 03:06 am (UTC)
I don't think it's the Australian voice Americans have a problem with (if anything they seem to love the stuff) but rather the Australianisms that we take for granted ie spelling and name specification (footpath/sidewalk)

I like to read anything that has a good plot, strong character and a point. I don't care where it comes from or what colloquialisms they employ.

Ticonderoga published a piece by N. Joy Dodds' which was set in rural Australia. It was creepy because it was totally Australian in theme, voice and textuality. I don't think it would have worked as well in a random American or British setting, but then that could have just been my opinion.
[info]girliejones wrote:
Mar. 12th, 2008 04:55 am (UTC)
I don't think I'm arguing Australia voice over good plot, strong character and a point. Not at all. But .. it's like for example, my love of SF - most of it is written for men, by men and so a lot of the stories I enjoy aren't targetted at my demographic or include my demographic. Would I love the genre *more* if it was and I was represented in the stories? Absolutely. Does it stop me from reading and enjoying those without, no. But it makes me sad and feel a little less sated each year that the trend continues.

So it's a little like that with Australian voice. I'm not going to stop reading just cause most doesn't have it, but I really get excited when I find a good one that does.
[info]ashamel wrote:
Mar. 12th, 2008 03:54 am (UTC)
I love stories that show you a familiar place in a new way. I'm not sure that addresses the actual complaint however. If (hypothetically) you need to be familiar with Perth to appreciate 'The Sun People' -- or Sydney for Prismatic, say -- there is probably something wrong.

Again, the American ubiquity gives them the advantage, in that they can set things in LA or NY or perhaps even small town Maine, and they _are_ familiar places to almost everyone.

I was pleased with one of my White Wolf fiction gigs (being a US company, as you are probably aware). I set it America just as a default, and the editor said I should use Australia. It made very little difference (and was trickier because I am actually less familiar with local police procedure), but I appreciated it.
[info]ratfan wrote:
Mar. 12th, 2008 05:47 am (UTC)
I don't think you have to know Perth to appreciate a story set here. I like it when I read an American story set somewhere I happen to know - e.g. Stephen King's Cell starts off in Boston, involving a tourist Duck Boat. There's the pleasure of recognition, since I've been on one of those very peculiar-looking craft myself. [the Duck Boats travel on land and water].

So it's a bonus if you do know the place but hopefully not essential. Also I do rather trash Perth :-) At time of writing the underground railway in the city hadn't yet been completed and I already had it destroyed and derelict :-)

Sue
[info]jo1967 wrote:
Mar. 12th, 2008 02:29 pm (UTC)
Hi, I've been lurking here for a little while and wanted to weigh in on this topic iffen you don't mind?

I don't necessarily look for stories with an Australian 'voice', but do get a bit excited when I find them.

On the other hand, you could take the example of someone like Charles De Lint who, wanting somewhere to set his stories and liking elements of many different cities, created his own city of Newford. He said that he also managed to avoid the problem of making mistakes and having fans write to him and tell him that "such and such coffee shop isn't on that particular street". He has been describing it for so long that it has taken on a life of its own and is probably as familiar to his fans as their own home cities.
[info]girliejones wrote:
Mar. 13th, 2008 01:50 am (UTC)
Thanks for delurking!

I love your example of De Lint's work. I think that's just as much fun to read too - stories set in their own world's that you can get absorbed into. I mean, I spose that's what fantasy writing is about.
[info]fatbaldguy60 wrote:
Mar. 12th, 2008 03:41 pm (UTC)
As long as the writing does not get too insular, I would prefer some local flavor [or flavour]. That is one of the reasons I read specific; to "travel", even if only in my own mind.
[info]girliejones wrote:
Mar. 13th, 2008 01:49 am (UTC)
Travelling is fun.
[info]dsgood wrote:
Mar. 13th, 2008 01:44 am (UTC)
If I want fiction with an American voice, I can find a whole lot (in most genres) written by Americans -- who are more likely to get things right than most non-Americans. If I run low, I can find gobs of fiction written by Brits who think they've successfully managed to sound American.

But fiction written by Australians who aren't trying to sound American (or English) is much harder to find in the US.
[info]girliejones wrote:
Mar. 13th, 2008 01:49 am (UTC)
It's definitely hard I think for Australian stories to get printed overseas. Some writers have successfully done it but then tend to transcend all the rules entirely.

Would you *want* to read fiction written by Australians who aren't trying to sound American?
[info]fred_mouse wrote:
Mar. 14th, 2008 05:41 am (UTC)
I'm finding that I can't think of this in terms of spec fic - my thoughts have turned and focused on picture books, where a sense of place is really important. Sometimes this sense of place is overt, identifiable and significant (e.g. Mem Fox's "Possum Magic"*), sometimes not so much (so many many stories that I can't identify one, although there are lots are are set 'in the toyroom' or some such - a generic location).

In general, it is not important that that sense of place be any one place, but if there wasn't a variety, then everything would be so bland. A story says something about the culture that the writer comes from, and with that stripped out, the story is much less.

And there are certainly schools of thought that say that the 'australianess' needs to be removed for an (mainly US) overseas market. Take the aforementioned "Possum Magic" - there is a story about the US release that apparently there was an initial request to change the food mentioned, because overseas audiences wouldn't understand about lamingtons and vegemite sandwiches. (I may have the details wrong, but I'm pretty sure I have the gist right)

sorry if this is a bit rambling. I can't seem to get the thought out clearly.
[info]girliejones wrote:
Mar. 17th, 2008 02:05 am (UTC)
I think that's a really important point - that the sense of place says something about your culture and where you come from. I think that is very much one aspect I look for when I read - to connect with that. And I think often I have to go outside this genre to find it.

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