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How many people does it take to say that the gender inbalance in SF outlets is a problem before it's seriously acknowledged, and accepted, as a problem?

Reasons, blame, motives, agenda, solutions and reason aside.

When is it allowed to be just ... an issue?

When will we be able to get past that discussion and start looking deeper at the more interesting aspects of it?


Jan. 12th, 2009 02:22 am (UTC)
Too true.

Jan. 12th, 2009 02:26 am (UTC)
But you see those of us in the priveleged position have been there for our entire lives, so we don't recognise it even when it's all around us. So it all just comes across as crazy people ranting at something that's invisible to us. (He says, crassly generalising every man in the SF/F community.)
Jan. 12th, 2009 02:30 am (UTC)
That was my point though yesterday. If you don't see it, does it not exist or does it just not exist *for you*.
Jan. 12th, 2009 02:45 am (UTC)
See below, but I totally believe the latter - as a priveleged male benefiting from a patriarchal societal structure.
Jan. 12th, 2009 02:34 am (UTC)
Heh I'm trying to figure out if you're being ironic or not because that is SO TRUE.

So many times, a woman says "look, here's this thing over here, it's sexism"

And a man hears "omg you are so sexist" and replies "but I'm not sexist."

And the woman hears "what are you talking about, crazy woman, there's no such thing as sexism" and quite rightly bops him on the head.

Jan. 12th, 2009 02:35 am (UTC)
No cookie for any one!
Jan. 12th, 2009 02:36 am (UTC)
Jan. 12th, 2009 02:44 am (UTC)
No, not ironic at all. When the patriarchy is structural rather than intentional, those in the priveleged position won't recognise that it's there as a rule. "I'm a man, and I don't act in a sexist fashion," we will say, when of course we don't have to - the system does it for us.

Not that I need to tell anyone in this thread any of this. I think we're all pretty educated on how this stuff happens and works (or doesn't, as the case may be).
Jan. 12th, 2009 03:10 am (UTC)
*hugs* see I shouldn't be giving you extra credit for being a bloke saying this stuff right now, but I totally am. You give me faith that it won't always be an uphill struggle.

And what makes me sad is how many people should be educated to think this way, and aren't. Like, otherwise really smart people who are so busy shouting "but I'm not sexist" they can't hear any of the rest of the dialogue.

Or, my other favourite one "it should be all about the art, not the gender of the person creating it!" Which, you know, is just fine if gender in no way impinges on your ability to get your art seen and heard, but many of us don't have that luxury.
Jan. 12th, 2009 03:14 am (UTC)
No, no. Give me the extra credit - I crave all the privilege I can get. : )

The idea of "it's about art, not gender" is based on the assumption that one's gender never influences the art.
Jan. 12th, 2009 03:25 am (UTC)
Oh, you're good. :D
Jan. 12th, 2009 04:23 am (UTC)
or one's appreciation of art is not influenced by one's gender
Jan. 12th, 2009 03:15 am (UTC)
angriest is pretty awesome
Jan. 13th, 2009 03:56 am (UTC)
I have (at the risk of damaging my shoulder) that problem in reverse. When I say something which seems perfectly rational to me, I get the, "OMG, you are so wonderful/enlightened/etc.) and I don't get it.

It seems things like equal pay for equal work, etc., just ought to be.

But (and this is a strange bit of privilege, I think) it seems I am wrong, and not just is the system tilted wrong (which the protesting of makes me seem special, which seems to me ought ought to be something which wasn't so rare as it appears to be), but that a huge number of men don't get it.

Which saddens me. It explains why the fight is so hard, it's not just reactionary types, but regular joes who can't get their head around the idea there is both privilege, and problems as a result of it.

Even more depressing to think on how much better it is, than it was.
Jan. 13th, 2009 09:23 am (UTC)
These things are so true. I actually think it's an awful thing that we are still so grateful to find men who just 'get it' without it being explained to them (or being repeatedly beaten over the head by "How to Suppress Women's Writing" and other supporting texts).

But we are grateful. Because we don't take it for granted. And too many times we've had to deal with intelligent, educated, otherwise thoroughly sensible men, who are not remotely sympathetic.

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