girlie jones (girliejones) wrote,
girlie jones

Is that the glass ceiling? - Discussion Thread breakout

A small side thread in the previous discussion is getting a bit unwieldy so it's been requested that I move it. Here it is, moved.

benpayne and I are talking about responsibility and intent - whose fault is it when you get hurt by what someone else says etc. We're just throwing round ideas. We do that on this topic every now and then and we take turns being devil's advocate as we pick the idea up and turn it around and survey it in different light and so on.

I should probably ask that if you want to comment, please comment here, even if it's in reference to something either of us said in the link above. That thread is so long, you can't see it anymore on your browser.

Where we were up to is benpayne replying to me with this

Thinking more about this. There are two effects of an action like that: how it effects me, and how it effects you.

So if you did something horrible to me, your actions could still have a negative effect on you, even if I were unaware of them or unaffected? So the "guilt" or "responsibility" that you carry is really a dissatisfaction with yourself, in that instance, in recognising and wishing you had acted differently.

The other effect is the effect on me, of course. Your actions provide the starting point for that, but I alter the equation as soon as I interact emotionally or intellectually with what has happened. So, any "bad" effects of your action in the second sense will always be a co-production.

In the example you quote above, the second effect is nullified to some extent by my lack of worry. Does that make your actions redeemable? I don't know if that's a useful question? What is redeemable?

You would certainly still be able to analyse yourself critically in terms of the first effect.

The problem with hurting someone inadvertently, I guess, is that the first effect is nullified, and the second effect is the one that matters. And how do you delineate where one person's responsibility ends and the other's begins? I'd suggest that all you can do is *both* listen to each other and try to take that into account in future.

Talking about it in terms of who is to blame or who carries the responsibility is generally unproductive in that instance, I'd suspect. I don't see that there's any way of "proving" who has contributed more, other than mobilising friends to agree with you, which only makes things uglier.

I'm going to reply in the comments.
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